Talk:Special Forces of Lovia
The Lovian Land Army also seeks to become Lovias Army, interesting, maybe after the conflict we could work together on that point. Kunarian 23:13, October 22, 2011 (UTC) Yes, it could. But what If we could make the unlor's agree that they stop the brutality's and then maybe you can join the goverment side, so we can work together. Granero 23:16, October 22, 2011 (UTC) The current government won't agree to a confederate states of Lovia and besides the policies of the government are considered to be the negativity that caused the situation. So its a no-go until diplomacy is in action. Kunarian 23:20, October 22, 2011 (UTC) There is no brutality from UNLOR! They do not torture or kill without reason. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 23:30, October 22, 2011 (UTC) It's not about the brutality (which is limited to shelling targets without checking for civilians), its the policies of the communist congresses of the past. Kunarian 23:33, October 22, 2011 (UTC) Shelling military targets is not the same as shelling civilian targets. And... these communists are more like socialists. Zero brutality. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 23:36, October 22, 2011 (UTC) say what you want whats happened has happened. My characters opinions will be different to your characters. Kunarian 23:38, October 22, 2011 (UTC) No brutality has happened. CPL.nm are not evil brutal stalinists, they are neo-marxists, a much more civil branch. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 23:40, October 22, 2011 (UTC) Marxist's are not too good, and Torres does not like them. Granero 23:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC) True however the LLA is not offering to take people out of power just take power away from those in power so another civil war cannot happen. Kunarian 23:46, October 22, 2011 (UTC) You're going against the current congressional majority of communists, socialists, (PALEO/ECONOMIC) liberals, moderate conservatives, and plenty of others, who want UNLOR. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 23:52, October 22, 2011 (UTC) It's mainly communists, socialists and leftists. The right mainly opposed the intervention. Kunarian 23:56, October 22, 2011 (UTC) The CCPL and economic centrists like me supported it. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 00:00, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Where is the actual page representing the data, I may be looking at the wrong one, besides your character supports a unitary government, which is pro-gov control on economics. Kunarian 00:04, October 23, 2011 (UTC) No--it means that they support more power at the federal level than at the states. Here's the link: Forum:Second Chamber. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 00:09, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Maybe I should have said "If you look at unitary governments they normally are pro-gov control on economics" still theres a good chance confederatism could have stopped this conflict in the first place. also yes I see that but the CCPL was divided into all three, and it was communists, socialists and leftists who voted for the intervention and the Right who voted agianst with one leftist (good old chap) voting agianst too. Can you at least see where I am coming from on government policy? Kunarian 00:13, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Not really. Being economically pro-gov control doesn't have much to do with a unitary state. The main difference is that in confederacies the states get to decide, but we definitely don't want that because we barely have enough active users to make state councils for each state. Otherwise, the governor would be a dictator. Also, have about 12 votes for and 3 votes neutral or against pretty much means you want it. And that leftist had one vote against, and nine (ten?) for. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 00:18, October 23, 2011 (UTC) We have 5 states and I swear we have at least 5 users, and a lot more on top. The governer would hardly be a dictator he would be able to adapt policies to his state that might be forced upon him in unitary states. Also those votes only really represent the head politicians aims, it's like saying that the population of america wanted Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya just because they voted for bush/obama. 00:33, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Not true. We also need deputy governors, anyway, to substitute if the governor resigns or dies. Anyway, the governor has no one to keep them in check EXCEPT Congress at the moment. And the Governor does whatever they want in the state if its allowed to them. Having more powers would not be good. The governor could force bad policies on their state that would otherwise be denied in unitary states. And these votes do represent the states also. It's like saying the population of Wisconsin wanted their governor to take away a bunch of union rights. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 00:40, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Do you think our governers cannot do a good job? I think they can and plus if the state votes for them then it is the peoples choice on what governor will represent their choice in laws, I mean people may look at policies of the current government and think they are good/bad does their individual opinion mean they are right/wrong. More power is not what we are saying its about everyone having less power. Thats the problem in the low power confederate state we propose the governor of Wisconsin would not be able to do that. Besides I'm going to sleep talk tommorrow. Kunarian 00:49, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Okay, have a good sleep. :D And what I think is that a number of people, cooperating in Congress, can do a better job than the governors can do. In a confederacy the governors will have too much power without other people they have to cooperate with to make laws. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:13, October 23, 2011 (UTC) The problem is that if you continue toargue and not budge on the issue it will only aggravate it further. I feel the only way to save Lovia is to give more state autonomy. But to keep it in check we should make a natianal framework, where governors are free to do as they please, as long as they stay inside legal limits. Or we could let the people decide and host binding (or non-bnding) referendums to see how people react to a proposal, and the nthe governor can make a decision in favor of general interest. HORTON11 19:31, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Or... we could have a NATIONAL discussion on affairs on national states and force people to work together, instead of having governors that can do whatever they want, which isn't very fair at all. States are only good for making maps look good. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 20:41, October 23, 2011 (UTC) I do not think that is the best solution, we (the federal government) need to be able to COMPROMISE. Governors should be able to pass state-centric laws, tailred to meet its citizens (and residents') needs. A single national policy just doesn't cut it, considering we are not a single, homogenous culture with similar beliefs. Congress must be a guide and make federal laws, but states should be able to implement their own, just as long as they fall within constitutional limits. HORTON11 21:17, October 23, 2011 (UTC) I thank you for your generous donation to the joint-Lovian Coastal Police/UNLOR platoon! When this war is over, if Lovia ever chooses to adopt a military, hopefully, you Special Forces could form the army and the Coastal Police could form a Navy or Coast Guard. Cheers,--COP Christopher Costello (Pikapi - Discuss) 13:51, October 29, 2011 (UTC) Illegal Militia If this unit is still operating it is an illeagal militia. Kunarian 22:47, December 19, 2011 (UTC) I don't think it is. After what they've done in the Lovian Civil War, though, I'd cut them some slack. -- LCPCOP Christopher Costello (Pikapi - Discuss) 23:51, December 19, 2011 (UTC) Laws the law, gotta uphold it. Remember the war had many sides, few were more justified than each other, we can't make exceptions but then agian as you said, I doubt they are still operating. 00:27, December 20, 2011 (UTC) I made it apart of the Police, a land comapnion of the Coastal police. Granero 00:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC) sorry but you can't do that. They cannot be that without approval from Congress. 00:45, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Its a case of you remove the status only you have put NOT congress or I make a law suit against them being an illeagal militia, which I will win, I have the evidence here. If they disband now then there is no case. I'm sorry but the last time we had an illeagal militia, shit happened. Kunarian 00:56, December 20, 2011 (UTC) This is not ilegal. Lovia needs a stronger police forces on land to prevent any more wars and this can help. Granero 01:08, December 20, 2011 (UTC) This is nice but it should be stronger,all the police should be enlarged and stengthened. What if there's a terrorist attack of some sort or military invasion? The country would be powerless to stop it, even with the Lovian Coastal Police and SpecialForces. MMunson 01:14, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Then you can expect a court case. Let me show you how you have broken the law. I see you have also added it to the federal police of your own accord that will soon be dealt with. #A private militia is any organization, either formally and''' nominally military''' or not, that is characterized by the presence of firearms, and that is not operated by the federal government of Lovia to ensure the nation's safety. #The organization of a private militia is prohibited within the Kingdom of Lovia. ##'It is unlawful to establish or participate in such a militia, as well as to allow them to exist and exercise their activities on one's premises.' ##It is unlawful for militias established outside of Lovia, or led by foreigners, to operate or organize activities in Lovia. ##Private security services are not allowed to let their officers bear firearms. I give you one last chance to rectify the unlawful changes you have made. Plus MMunson it is not up to a user to decide to change government pages but for the people of congress to do so. And do tell who would be likely to organise a terrorist attack against Lovia or even invade Lovia? the only threat Lovia has is from the inside. Kunarian 01:20, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Kunarian this is not anymore a militia that is operated byt the Police (which is of the government). I will go to the congress to establish officially this, and also if you are going to court you also have to take the Coastal Police and I will be solidarious with them. Also MMunson we do not need more, only the basic minimum. I do not like violence and armys but in some cases we need them for the greater security. Granero 01:42, December 20, 2011 (UTC) I will take you to court without the Coastal Police as they were put into operation by congress, this militia was not, you have not changed the page and so it will be done. We shall not have someones private militia occupy lovias land and attempt to become lovias armed forces. Kunarian 01:47, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Kunarian. I don't want to sound rude here, but allow me to let you in on a little secret. When I created the Coastal Police a great many months back, I did not propose it to Congress. I was new to the wiki and because the wiki lacked activity, I'm assuming that people decided just to let the unknowing new user get his way. Yeah, I'd take it to congress now if I had to, but technically, that would be stupid, considering that the Coastal Police were said to have been operating for years, and they've already made their mark on the wiki. I know its a law that these can't exist, but he'd be more than willing to propose it to congress now before trials are pushed, I'll support the Special Forces, and it might just become official. Lets do so after the elections though, at least, considering the political turmoil we're in right now. -- LCPCOP Christopher Costello (Pikapi - Discuss) 01:54, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Agreed but I promise you it will not get through congress. The difference as I say between this and the coastal police is that this was made for the civil war and has not been approved by congress and the coastal police have been here almost since the beggining and have been approved by congress. Kunarian 02:00, December 20, 2011 (UTC) Kunarian Chris has a spot in congress and my cousin is also in congress and he might support it. Granero 02:47, December 20, 2011 (UTC) glad you are so confident. The law will not however. Plus if you are talking real life relatives then I could just get my six brothers to start up on this wikia. I'm sure at least three would be eager. Kunarian 03:14, December 20, 2011 (UTC) We'll take it to congress on wether it stays or goes. If Kunarian is right (which he very well may be), I'll let your men into the costal police. Either way, I think this goes without saying, but: Nah, just remember this is all in good fun. No hard feelings, I hope. When shall we take this to congress? -- LCPCOP Christopher Costello (Pikapi - Discuss) 03:28, December 20, 2011 (UTC) ASAP. short answer for quick action. this is just like the monopoly we need Lovia to be un monopolised and the way this is going it just looks like one or two players will monopolise the military and that ain't good. But yes before this begins, what ho and tally on, let this be a constest of gentlemen. 03:32, December 20, 2011 (UTC) I already left a message in the congress. But I think Kunarian is inflaming the situation too much. Granero 03:31, December 20, 2011 (UTC) SIGMA Team supports the Special Forces. ---''It's all here, black and white, clear as crystal. 21:41, December 20, 2011 (UTC)'' Right thats it, no approval from congress. I'm taking you to court. 22:19, December 20, 2011 (UTC) The special forces completely demilitarized are are no longer active. Plus they were never operational after the war (they only existed for some time but did not engage in activities). Your LLA did not demilitarize and are active. So any argument you use is valid against you. HORTON11: • 20:34, March 14, 2012 (UTC) : Where did it say before my intervention that they had demilitarised or handed over weapons? it didn't. They were even sponsored by the Secretary of Welfare at one point. The LLA demilitarised with their surrender as they handed over all weapons which they have not got back. So your arguments are invalid, I say again read the civil war page and you'll see. Kunarian 20:41, March 14, 2012 (UTC) :: At that moment they were a perfectly legal force, but they did not engage in activity. The LLA may have demilitarized but are still active in military activity. I woud say the best solution os to leave the page as was before your edits and then go to congress and see if there is sufficent support to believe that the defunct Special Forces is a threat to the security of Lovia. Personally the thought of you rearming and increasing your force (and the plans to make it a nationalist army) is more threatening.HORTON11: • 20:47, March 14, 2012 (UTC) ::: They were not legal. They had military hardware. And I wonder what do you classify as military activity? I have no quarral with you Horton, we've worked together in the past. The edits I made simply show that there was evidence that they had not dimilitarised (as in were not classed as a militia) and that they are suspected of owning weapons, nothing more, its hardly worth arguing against. The LLA are growing, but remember why they entered the civil war in the first place, not to establish a random nationalist empire like you may imagine but to force an end to the war by taking Noble City. Plus if what you mean by the plans to make it the nationalist army, is to make them the national guard then I can reassure you like I did Costello that the LLA are not going to be the guard of Lovia. Kunarian 20:56, March 14, 2012 (UTC) :::: I get your point, but as it is only an opinion of yours, make it known as such. And I seriously believe that your LLA can still be classified as as a militia as they have ingaged in military activity and even if it was not done in Lovia, it is still illegal. HORTON11: • 21:01, March 14, 2012 (UTC) :::::Ok then I will change the edits to be more neutral if you truly feel they are opinions. And the LLA cannot be classified as a militia as the closest it comes is to be one in name by the term "Army" however in the LLA's case it uses the dictionary definition of " A large group of people organized for a specific cause" instead of the military terms. Kunarian 21:07, March 14, 2012 (UTC)